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Re: [Public WebGL] WebGL working group - leadership

It's not years away. It's months away, maybe a year-ish for 3.1 stuff.

I feel I should reiterate that MANGLE has nothing to do with anyone but Google, so I'm not sure why it keeps coming up regarding implementation progress.
If you want to discuss Google priorities, I recommend contacting Ken directly.

Just because something sounds easy doesn't mean it is. We can't just pass calls from JS straight through to ES, and we need to do a ton of validation and driver workarounds for things to keep working. We also may need to update our shader validators to handle compute shaders. (Can we even implement ES3 on Mac's 4.1+extensions?)


----- Original Message -----
From: "John Davis" <jdavis@pcprogramming.com>
To: "Gregg Tavares" <khronos@greggman.com>
Cc: "Aleksandar Rodic" <aleksandar.xyz@gmail.com>, "Zhenyao Mo" <zmo@chromium.org>, "public webgl" <public_webgl@khronos.org>
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 2:50:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Public WebGL] WebGL working group - leadership

Is limiting ourselves to the lowest common denominator the best strategy?
If WinXP is our gold standard, then we'll never have compute shaders.

The goal of reaching the most people is already in place, webgl 1.0 and
ANGLE.  Why not start shooting for where the target will be?  If people see
compelling content on their friend's webgl 2.1/ES 3.1 device, they will be
inclined to upgrade sooner rather than later.  As opposed to us waiting on
them to upgrade on their own.

At this point, I still think it would be a better allocation of resources
to focus on webgl 2.1/es 3.1 for Android and IOS, and then let MANGLE catch
up.  The latest iphones and tablets, which are selling like hotcakes, have
ES 3.1 hardware, right?  Why is this years away?

On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Gregg Tavares <khronos@greggman.com> wrote:

> Let me add as well I think Ken has done and is doing a great job.
> We all want the shiniest newest features. But, one goal of a browser is to
> run everywhere. If WebGL were to go 3.1 most phones couldn't run it.
> Browsers are trying to cover as many people as possible. In fact it's
> likely WebGL 2.0 won't run on a great number of devices that WebGL 1.0 runs
> on. Windows XP's market share is still > 1 out of 5 people. Even looking at
> Mac's 30% of them can't run WebGL 2.0 which requires OSX 10.9 or higher.  1
> out of 5 iPhones is still a 4 or 4S. No existing phone that I know of
> supports 3.1
> I don't think the browser's goals have ever been to be on the bleeding
> edge of GPU APIs. Their goals are a more along the lines of making them
> accessible to the most people. Targeting 3.1 would likely mean most people
> couldn't use the API for many years. Unlike GL the goal of a browser is as
> much as possible write once run everywhere. Different goals lead to
> different priorities. Personally I think the current goals are the
> appropriate ones.
> On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 10:58 AM, Aleksandar Rodic <
> aleksandar.xyz@gmail.com> wrote:
>> What I'm seeing is increasing support, stability and performance across
>> all platforms at a rate I thought was not possible.
>> Kudos to Ken and everyone at WebGL WG for making it possible.
>> Aki
>> Aleksandar Aki Rodić | @xyz_ak <https://twitter.com/xyz_ak> | +1 510 761
>> 5522 | aleksandarrodic.com
>> On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 10:26 AM, Zhenyao Mo <zmo@chromium.org> wrote:
>>> Perception could be biased / deceiving, specifically you focus your
>>> evaluation solely on the "speed" factor.
>>> It's like planting a tree, we all can't wait to taste the fruit, but
>>> things have their cycles, and rushing usually does not work; it could
>>> even kill the plant.
>>> The fact is WebGL has been growing healthily for the past a few years,
>>> and we have more fruits to pick in the near future.  So I would say
>>> great job on Ken's side.
>>> On Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 3:47 AM, John Davis <jdavis@pcprogramming.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > Ken,
>>> >
>>> > Nothing personal.  As chairman of the webgl working group, for over
>>> three
>>> > years, what has been achieved thus far?
>>> >
>>> > My perception is the standard progressed much faster under Vlad.  If
>>> he's
>>> > willing, why don't we put Vlad back in the driver's seat?
>>> >
>>> > JD
>>> >
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