[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]
RE: [Public WebGL] Need to spec range checking for WebGL ANGLE_instanced_arrays?
Sounds good, though I don't think your interpretation of GL_ARB_robust_buffer_access_behavior is entirely waterproof. The extension gives sufficient security guarantees, but the wording is vague enough that implementations can't be trusted to be identical. Jeff Bolz, who was one of the authors of the extension spec, agreed with me on this. At minimum we need to clarify the extension spec if we want to make this core behavior in WebGL. Right now, at least these two interpretations seem possible:
1. If an index is pointing past the storage of one particular bound buffer, set only that attribute to zero.
2. If an index is pointing past the storage of one particular bound buffer, set all attributes to zero.
Also the case where an indexed attribute is partially inside and partially outside a buffer might be problematic.
Based on this going with a WebGL extension seems like a better idea. Here's an extension proposal based on my discussion with Jeff Gilbert:
I have a crude JS benchmark for just measuring the validation overhead, targeting the current implementations in Chrome and Firefox. The browsers seem to be able to validate around 80000 uint16 indices per millisecond on my Core i7 workstation. The current Firefox implementation is faster than that in Chrome for certain kinds of content, but it does have its corner cases as well. I can probably share my benchmark for what it's worth after a bit of clean-up.
From: Kenneth Russell [email@example.com]
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2014 4:24 AM
To: Olli Etuaho
Cc: Florian Bösch; firstname.lastname@example.org
Subject: Re: [Public WebGL] Need to spec range checking for WebGL ANGLE_instanced_arrays?
Thanks for raising this issue and for filing pull request
This extension must not be able to sidestep or otherwise subvert the
security guarantees provided in the core spec's drawArrays and
drawElements calls, so to provide consistent behavior, let's merge
this pull request.
The WebGL WG needs to revisit the range checking behavior in
drawArrays and drawElements. If both GL_ARB_robustness and
GL_ARB_robust_buffer_access_behavior are available then it's possible
to have a secure and testable WebGL spec that doesn't generate
INVALID_OPERATION due to out of range indices or accesses during these
draw calls. This came up a while back. Mozilla stated that their
implementation of range checking is highly optimized and carries very
little overhead even for dynamically changing indices. I was supposed
to write a benchmark which dynamically updated the ELEMENT_ARRAY
buffer and did its rendering using drawElements (this is slow in
Chrome right now) and see whether Firefox yielded any speedup if its
range checking code were completely disabled. That would inform
whether we should preserve the INVALID_OPERATION generation in the
WebGL spec. Unfortunately I dropped the ball on this, but will try to
pick it up again. If anyone would like to write such a benchmark so
that we can see just how expensive the index validation in the various
WebGL implementations is, that would be very welcome.
On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 4:42 AM, Olli Etuaho <email@example.com> wrote:
> The definition of robust buffer access in ARB_robustness says that the implementation may return undefined values, and these could include data that the WebGL context is not supposed to be able to access. So relying on that is insecure.
> ARB_robust_buffer_access_behavior is better in terms of security, but not as widely supported. That's being looked at, but I'd prefer if this thread would just be about what to do with range checking for ANGLE_instanced_arrays. Since the underlying graphics APIs don't always give enough guarantees, some checking needs to be present on the CPU side, and so at least Chrome is currently producing errors that are not explicitly specified. I agree with your suggested minimum of specifying that INVALID_OPERATION is produced whenever an out-of-range attribute would be accessed regardless of the which draw call is made, but it might be easier to interpret the spec as an implementer if it spelled things out a bit more.
> From: Florian Bösch [firstname.lastname@example.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 12:27 PM
> To: Olli Etuaho
> Cc: email@example.com
> Subject: Re: [Public WebGL] Need to spec range checking for WebGL ANGLE_instanced_arrays?
> On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 11:18 AM, Olli Etuaho <firstname.lastname@example.org<mailto:email@example.com>> wrote:
>> Well, ARB_robustness is not a part of the WebGL spec.
> I'm aware of that.
>> It's a part of how WebGL is typically implemented on OpenGL, and robust buffer access in ARB_robustness is tangentially related, but it doesn't give solid security guarantees
> So your answer is that ARB_robustness does not validate the vertexPointer validity on drawElements, drawArrays and neither on drawElementsInstanced and drawArraysInstanced? My reading of the ARB_robustness specification suggests that ARB_robustness does in fact do those things. Could you please clarify?
>> and beyond that I don't see how ARB_robustness would come into play here. The issue is that at least one browser vendor has thought it necessary to have these unspecified checks, so it seems like a good idea to me to correct the omission in the spec and tests.
> ARB_robustness comes into play these ways
> 1. if ARB_robustness specifies the checks (and enforces them) than an implementation should use that because:
> 2. Manual checking isn't free, it makes it practically infeasible to use drawElements except under very specific rarely encountered situations. Manual checking means that everytime drawElements is called, that all indices are validated on the CPU. So ARB_robustiness guarantees are of great relevance here.
> 3. Since neither the extension specifications for OpenGL, nor for OpenGL ES extensions, nor the core specification of OpenGL nor the core specification of OpenGL ES defines these checks, and the only reference to checks is to be found in ARB_robustness in the standard specifications, and in two paragraphs in the WebGL specification, it is questionable if further specification is required at all. I think at a minimum the WebGL specification could be updated not to specifically mention drawElements and drawArrays, and make it clear that appropriate range checks would have to be performed regardless of how things are drawn, and regardless of how these checks are implemented underneath.
> You are currently subscribed to firstname.lastname@example.org.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to email@example.com with
> the following command in the body of your email:
> unsubscribe public_webgl
You are currently subscribed to firstname.lastname@example.org.
To unsubscribe, send an email to email@example.com with
the following command in the body of your email: