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Re: [Public WebGL] Stereoscopic monitors



Hi Gregg,

This is doable to some extent for the embedded systems via drawing
libraries such as DirectFB, where this one offers to middle-ware such
as WebKit a stereo surface w/ separate left and right buffers where
rendering can happen (so render to a pixmap). Such a surface can be
composited with other classic 2D content before being written into the
primary surface (which is stereo too) that serves for final display on
screen.

So what's really lacking is stereo window management which can be
provided either by a dedicated toolkit back-end (in WebKit) or by
WebKit itself via a compositing layer that supports stereoscopy (which
we could map then to the corresponding toolkit capability).

This really can be done like it's almost there. Having the WebGL
post-processing to have the left and right buffers ready plus the
compositing support would definitely help.

-Ilyes

On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 6:54 PM, Gregg Tavares (wrk) <gman@google.com> wrote:
> If you'd like to see stereoscopic support the #1 thing you need to do is get
> the GPU vendors to provide an API that meets the needs of a browser. All of
> their APIs to date assume there will be 1 (or very few) 3d areas. In other
> words they were designed for 1 game that takes over the screen or 1 video
> that is player. That's not a limitation a browser can live with IMO
> I can have multiple browser windows open and they can all have multiple 3d
> areas
> If one of the GPU/3d display vendors provided APIs that were flexible enough
> I'd certainly consider trying to support it.
>
> On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 8:59 AM, Shropshire, Andrew A <shropshire@att.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Ok thanks for the information.  Perhaps some non-stereoscopic 3D display
>> will come along in the future that will be cheap.  If I were designing the
>> 3D apis, I would anticipate this and make the projection part of the
>> pipeline removable.  Also it might be helpful to have more text handling
>> routines and font support like SVG, to facilitate drawing of text in 3D so
>> that mundane work like improving the look of buttons, scrollbars etc in
>> business applications could be improved.  Maybe this is what Windows 8
>> will
>> do.
>>
>> Andrew Shropshire
>>
>> AT&T Government Solutions, Inc.
>> 703-506-5708
>> shropshire@att.com
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Steve Baker [mailto:steve@sjbaker.org]
>> Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 11:44 AM
>> To: Shropshire, Andrew A
>> Cc: 'public_webgl@khronos.org'
>> Subject: Re: [Public WebGL] Stereoscopic monitors
>>
>> No, unless the browser had some kind of special support, WebGL will not
>> appear any different from normal 2D images.  I doubt such support is
>> likely anytime soon because it would imply massive changes to at least the
>> <canvas> subsystem - and likely throughout all of HTML.  Stereo monitors
>> just aren't popular enough to make the effort that this would entail
>> remotely worthwhile.
>>
>> Technically: To use stereoscopic displays, you have to render the entire
>> scene twice, once from the left-eye perspective, and again from the right
>> eye.  These two images then have to be overlaid or combined or written
>> into two separate rendering buffers.  There is support for doing this kind
>> of thing in OpenGL via various quad-buffer extensions and such.  But none
>> of that is present in WebGL (AFAICT).  Even if the extensions were
>> available, the whole concept of how the compositing pipeline would work in
>> stereo is not considered at all.
>>
>> Also, IMHO, stereoscopic monitors are a complete waste of money.  Except
>> in very niche applications, stereoscopic 3D is highly problematic.  Issues
>> of dynamic depth of focus mean that barring some pretty stunning
>> technological leaps, these technologies will always cause people to suffer
>> headaches and other nasty symptoms - just as they do in 3D televisions.
>> To avoid this, the 3D-ness of the scene and the positioning of the camera
>> and set/lighting design has to be carefully considered.  It's not just a
>> matter of displaying the material correctly.
>>
>> Shropshire, Andrew A wrote:
>> > If I write WebGl and my website has WebGl content, will it appear in 3D
>> > on
>> > a
>> > stereoscopic monitor (3D monitor), if I purchase one?  Ie is
>> > stereoscopic
>> > monitor support a benefit of using WebGl?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Andrew Shropshire
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > AT&T Government Solutions, Inc.
>> >
>> > 703-506-5708
>> >
>> > shropshire@att.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>  -- Steve
>>
>
>

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