Difference between revisions of "User talk:Tsiros"

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(Framebuffer Object: new section)
 
(Moved discussion from my page and added a response.)
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It would help if you could better explain what your issue with this page is. It is one of the older pages on the Wiki, the [https://www.khronos.org/opengl/wiki_opengl/index.php?title=Framebuffer_Object&oldid=2353 original version and structure dating back to nearly a decade ago], so I'm open to the idea that it has problems. But it's hard to know what those are when your only criticism is "Reads like an autotranslated article." [[User:Alfonse|Alfonse]] ([[User talk:Alfonse|talk]]) 18:42, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
 
It would help if you could better explain what your issue with this page is. It is one of the older pages on the Wiki, the [https://www.khronos.org/opengl/wiki_opengl/index.php?title=Framebuffer_Object&oldid=2353 original version and structure dating back to nearly a decade ago], so I'm open to the idea that it has problems. But it's hard to know what those are when your only criticism is "Reads like an autotranslated article." [[User:Alfonse|Alfonse]] ([[User talk:Alfonse|talk]]) 18:42, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
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== how do i use this thing ==
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"Framebuffer Objects are OpenGL Objects" are a kind of, or *are* ?
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"which allow for the creation of user-defined Framebuffers" this doesn't say if *this* is their purpose or if this is the *only* way to create userdefined framebuffers.
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"With them" them? framebuffer objects or userdefined framebuffers?
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"one can render to non-Default Framebuffer locations" is this the only way to render to non-default framebuffer locations? is a framebuffer *location* different to a framebuffer? to a framebuffer object? It doesn't explain if one can render to the *default* framebuffer.
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", and thus render without disturbing the main screen." is this an option or is this the only way it works? using a framebuffer object prevents 'disturbing' the main screen? what is the 'main screen' ?
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"Framebuffer objects are very complicated." uh... does this matter? Is this your personal opinion?
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" As such, we need to explicitly define certain terminology." so, in short, the text from 'Semantics' to 'terminology.' means"DEFINITIONS:"
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"For the purposes of this article, an image is a single 2D array of pixels. It has a specific format for these pixels." not sure what "with a specific format" means. Does this mean the format must be specified on creation? Or is it predetermined and all 'Images' use this format?
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" images of a particular size and format. " again, what the hell does 'particular' mean?
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"a texture is an object that contains some number of images" 'some' ? is this number a constant? can it be changed? what the hell does 'some' mean? just pffffrt pick a number 1.34423523e41 there, a number.
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" Textures can be accessed from Shaders via various methods." 'via various methods' ? does this matter now? is 'two methods' enough for various? or ten thousand?
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"A renderbuffer is an object that contains a single image." so if that's all it is, how is it different from an image? or is it an image with additional data?
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"Renderbuffers cannot be accessed by Shaders in any way. " they sure can. indirectly, but that is *a way*.
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"The only way to work with a renderbuffer, besides creating it, is to put it into an FBO." 'work with' ? you mean 'use' ? 'put it into' ? You mean 'attach it to'? Also, creation is not use. You create so you *can* use what you created.
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"This term is used across all of OpenGL, but FBOs make the most use of the concept. " this is relevant, how?
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"Objects are bound to the context; objects are attached to one another." still not clear on the difference.
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"A named location within a framebuffer object that a framebuffer-attachable image or layered image can be attached to. " what's a "named location"?
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"Any image, as previously described, that can be attached to a framebuffer object.": an image that one may attach to a framebuffer object. "that can be attached" is ambiguous.  is it attached *now*, or is it possible *to* attach it?
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"The default framebuffer has buffer names like GL_FRONT, GL_BACK, GL_AUXi, GL_ACCUM, and so forth. FBOs do not use these." you're kidding me, right? Please tell me english isn't your native language, i can accept that. This is no way to write documentation. This is how i used to write at university when i tried to pad my essays to fill the mandatory word count.
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"Rectangle Textures contain a single 2D image, and thus is identified by mipmap level​ 0." is? the image is identified? or is this a typo? First sentence uses plural, second uses singular.
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"You can attach images from any kind of texture to the framebuffer object. " any? last point says buffer textures cannot be attached. this is confusing.
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i'm stopping here because this won't get us anywhere.
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"Do not do this. What you will get is undefined behavior." what are you doing man, what are you doing.
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: First, this discussion should take place on your talk page, not mine. Second, when writing any posts on a talk page, always sign your posts with four ~ characters in a row. That way, people can tell who said what.
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: Third, I'm not going into thread-mode with you over every single sentence of that article. Your overall point seems to be that you disagree with the generally informal tone of the text on the page. You seem to prefer formal, technical writing rather than this more informal style, a style common to reference documentation, where information and terminology is endlessly repeated. That's not a thing that should happen here.
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: Consider the distinction between "bound" and "attach". The [[OpenGL Object]] page goes into more detail on the distinction. Giving a perfunctory summary of the concept on the FBO page reduces repetition.
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: I'm not saying that the current wording is perfect (you found an actual inaccuracy in that buffer textures cannot be attached to FBOs). But the majority of your points seem to be personal nit-picks and differences of style, rather than objective problems. For example, I don't think anyone is legitimately confused by "Framebuffer Objects are OpenGL Objects," much like nobody is confused by "frogs are amphibians". While "a type of" might be more specific, that doesn't mean that "are" is the wrong word.
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: Similarly, I don't think "some number of images" is causing problems either. The point of the statement is to make it clear that a texture is not just a ''single image'', that different textures can have different numbers of images. The phrase "some number" keeps the number indeterminate, because the exact number depends on the specific texture object. "Picking a number" would therefore be inaccurate.
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: If you want to rewrite the page, feel free. But since I don't agree with most of your issues with it, I won't be doing it for you. Also, if you do rewrite the page, understand that I will probably revert it if your version lacks ''any'' of the informational content that the current version has, particularly any of the warnings about UB and the like. So if you're going to rewrite it, be ''comprehensive''. [[User:Alfonse|Alfonse]] ([[User talk:Alfonse|talk]]) 15:32, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

Revision as of 15:37, 1 July 2019

Framebuffer Object

It would help if you could better explain what your issue with this page is. It is one of the older pages on the Wiki, the original version and structure dating back to nearly a decade ago, so I'm open to the idea that it has problems. But it's hard to know what those are when your only criticism is "Reads like an autotranslated article." Alfonse (talk) 18:42, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

how do i use this thing

"Framebuffer Objects are OpenGL Objects" are a kind of, or *are* ?

"which allow for the creation of user-defined Framebuffers" this doesn't say if *this* is their purpose or if this is the *only* way to create userdefined framebuffers.

"With them" them? framebuffer objects or userdefined framebuffers?

"one can render to non-Default Framebuffer locations" is this the only way to render to non-default framebuffer locations? is a framebuffer *location* different to a framebuffer? to a framebuffer object? It doesn't explain if one can render to the *default* framebuffer.

", and thus render without disturbing the main screen." is this an option or is this the only way it works? using a framebuffer object prevents 'disturbing' the main screen? what is the 'main screen' ?

"Framebuffer objects are very complicated." uh... does this matter? Is this your personal opinion?

" As such, we need to explicitly define certain terminology." so, in short, the text from 'Semantics' to 'terminology.' means"DEFINITIONS:"

"For the purposes of this article, an image is a single 2D array of pixels. It has a specific format for these pixels." not sure what "with a specific format" means. Does this mean the format must be specified on creation? Or is it predetermined and all 'Images' use this format?

" images of a particular size and format. " again, what the hell does 'particular' mean?

"a texture is an object that contains some number of images" 'some' ? is this number a constant? can it be changed? what the hell does 'some' mean? just pffffrt pick a number 1.34423523e41 there, a number.

" Textures can be accessed from Shaders via various methods." 'via various methods' ? does this matter now? is 'two methods' enough for various? or ten thousand?

"A renderbuffer is an object that contains a single image." so if that's all it is, how is it different from an image? or is it an image with additional data?

"Renderbuffers cannot be accessed by Shaders in any way. " they sure can. indirectly, but that is *a way*.

"The only way to work with a renderbuffer, besides creating it, is to put it into an FBO." 'work with' ? you mean 'use' ? 'put it into' ? You mean 'attach it to'? Also, creation is not use. You create so you *can* use what you created.

"This term is used across all of OpenGL, but FBOs make the most use of the concept. " this is relevant, how?

"Objects are bound to the context; objects are attached to one another." still not clear on the difference.

"A named location within a framebuffer object that a framebuffer-attachable image or layered image can be attached to. " what's a "named location"?

"Any image, as previously described, that can be attached to a framebuffer object.": an image that one may attach to a framebuffer object. "that can be attached" is ambiguous. is it attached *now*, or is it possible *to* attach it?

"The default framebuffer has buffer names like GL_FRONT, GL_BACK, GL_AUXi, GL_ACCUM, and so forth. FBOs do not use these." you're kidding me, right? Please tell me english isn't your native language, i can accept that. This is no way to write documentation. This is how i used to write at university when i tried to pad my essays to fill the mandatory word count.

"Rectangle Textures contain a single 2D image, and thus is identified by mipmap level​ 0." is? the image is identified? or is this a typo? First sentence uses plural, second uses singular.

"You can attach images from any kind of texture to the framebuffer object. " any? last point says buffer textures cannot be attached. this is confusing.

i'm stopping here because this won't get us anywhere.

"Do not do this. What you will get is undefined behavior." what are you doing man, what are you doing.

First, this discussion should take place on your talk page, not mine. Second, when writing any posts on a talk page, always sign your posts with four ~ characters in a row. That way, people can tell who said what.
Third, I'm not going into thread-mode with you over every single sentence of that article. Your overall point seems to be that you disagree with the generally informal tone of the text on the page. You seem to prefer formal, technical writing rather than this more informal style, a style common to reference documentation, where information and terminology is endlessly repeated. That's not a thing that should happen here.
Consider the distinction between "bound" and "attach". The OpenGL Object page goes into more detail on the distinction. Giving a perfunctory summary of the concept on the FBO page reduces repetition.
I'm not saying that the current wording is perfect (you found an actual inaccuracy in that buffer textures cannot be attached to FBOs). But the majority of your points seem to be personal nit-picks and differences of style, rather than objective problems. For example, I don't think anyone is legitimately confused by "Framebuffer Objects are OpenGL Objects," much like nobody is confused by "frogs are amphibians". While "a type of" might be more specific, that doesn't mean that "are" is the wrong word.
Similarly, I don't think "some number of images" is causing problems either. The point of the statement is to make it clear that a texture is not just a single image, that different textures can have different numbers of images. The phrase "some number" keeps the number indeterminate, because the exact number depends on the specific texture object. "Picking a number" would therefore be inaccurate.
If you want to rewrite the page, feel free. But since I don't agree with most of your issues with it, I won't be doing it for you. Also, if you do rewrite the page, understand that I will probably revert it if your version lacks any of the informational content that the current version has, particularly any of the warnings about UB and the like. So if you're going to rewrite it, be comprehensive. Alfonse (talk) 15:32, 1 July 2019 (UTC)